Comments on: Everyone has the right to representation http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/ Random Musings. Imaginary readers. Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:52:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: I am Ram Jethmalani, superstar counsel « Reality Check India http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-53652 I am Ram Jethmalani, superstar counsel « Reality Check India Tue, 02 Sep 2008 07:37:48 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-53652 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/ [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/ [...]

]]> By: Anita http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1088 Anita Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:23:23 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1088 And I certainly hope that we have strong lawyers for the prosecution. A balanced court where the opposing counsel gives two-hoots for the “reputation” of Jethmalani is what’s needed to ensure a fair fight. Also, I’d hope the judge will be able to look beyond his dramatics. [teal} amen to that... (..but.. u think?? ) And I certainly hope that we have strong lawyers for the prosecution. A balanced court where the opposing counsel gives two-hoots for the “reputation” of Jethmalani is what’s needed to ensure a fair fight. Also, I’d hope the judge will be able to look beyond his dramatics.

[teal} amen to that…

(..but.. u think?? )

]]> By: Shripriya http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1087 Shripriya Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:18:53 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1087 Well, :), the sentence that has "his loyalty is to the law..." goes on about evidence etc. But I agree with you that maligning the victim is disgusting. And I certainly hope that we have strong lawyers for the prosecution. A balanced court where the opposing counsel gives two-hoots for the "reputation" of Jethmalani is what's needed to ensure a fair fight. Also, I'd hope the judge will be able to look beyond his dramatics. Let's see how this plays out. As I said in my post politicians and those connected to them get away with too much in India. A brand name like Jethmalani should not be able to get away with stuff *in court* because of who he is (the press is a different matter since they are so brand conscious whoever the heck it is). Well, :) , the sentence that has “his loyalty is to the law…” goes on about evidence etc.

But I agree with you that maligning the victim is disgusting.

And I certainly hope that we have strong lawyers for the prosecution. A balanced court where the opposing counsel gives two-hoots for the “reputation” of Jethmalani is what’s needed to ensure a fair fight. Also, I’d hope the judge will be able to look beyond his dramatics.

Let’s see how this plays out. As I said in my post politicians and those connected to them get away with too much in India. A brand name like Jethmalani should not be able to get away with stuff *in court* because of who he is (the press is a different matter since they are so brand conscious whoever the heck it is).

]]> By: Anita http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1086 Anita Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:11:36 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1086 /// bearing in mind that his loyalty is to the law/// not to the client at the cost of the law. It is not only about his having taken up this case. It is also about how he's fighting it. /// all fair and honourable means /// He's not breaking any professional rules, no. He's too smart to. But I'm not sure he's using the right means to fight this case...maligning a dead woman pointlessly certainly isn't fair or honorable.He's an intimidating opponent. I truly hope he doesn't make the truth disappear in this case using his sorcery with words. /// bearing in mind that his loyalty is to the law///

not to the client at the cost of the law.

It is not only about his having taken up this case. It is also about how he’s fighting it.

/// all fair and honourable means ///

He’s not breaking any professional rules, no. He’s too smart to. But I’m not sure he’s using the right means to fight this case…maligning a dead woman pointlessly certainly isn’t fair or honorable.He’s an intimidating opponent. I truly hope he doesn’t make the truth disappear in this case using his sorcery with words.

]]> By: Shripriya http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1084 Shripriya Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:49:22 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1084 Here's the thing -- what is the "right" side? Shouldn't that be decided in the courts? Since he hasn't been judged, how do we know what the right side is? I looked up the Bar Council of India's code of conduct (difficult to find online -- http://lawmin.nic.in/la/subord/bcipart6.htm). It says <blockquote>"15. It shall be the duty of an advocate fearlessly to uphold the interests of his client by all fair and honourable means without regard to any unpleasant consequences to himself or any other. He shall defend a person accused of a crime <strong>regardless of his personal opinion as to the guilt of the accused</strong>, bearing in mind that his loyalty is to the law which requires that no man should be convicted without adequate evidence."</blockquote> So, he has to defend the guy irrespective of his personal opinion. And he must defend him to the best of his ability. So, despite the fact that you (and I) think Manu Sharma is scumball, Jethmalani is following the code of conduct of his profession. In fact, professional misconduct, as defined by the code that governs lawyers in India, would be to not try his best. Professional misconduct in this case would be breaking the law or breaking the code which he swore to follow. He is doing neither, from what I can see. Now, you may feel he shouldn't have taken the case, but that's his decision. That's kind of the problem in democracies -- people can do things we hate. But that's also the power of democracies. Here’s the thing — what is the “right” side? Shouldn’t that be decided in the courts? Since he hasn’t been judged, how do we know what the right side is?

I looked up the Bar Council of India’s code of conduct (difficult to find online — http://lawmin.nic.in/la/subord/bcipart6.htm). It says

“15. It shall be the duty of an advocate fearlessly to uphold the interests of his client by all fair and honourable means without regard to any unpleasant consequences to himself or any other. He shall defend a person accused of a crime regardless of his personal opinion as to the guilt of the accused, bearing in mind that his loyalty is to the law which requires that no man should be convicted without adequate evidence.”

So, he has to defend the guy irrespective of his personal opinion. And he must defend him to the best of his ability. So, despite the fact that you (and I) think Manu Sharma is scumball, Jethmalani is following the code of conduct of his profession. In fact, professional misconduct, as defined by the code that governs lawyers in India, would be to not try his best.

Professional misconduct in this case would be breaking the law or breaking the code which he swore to follow. He is doing neither, from what I can see.

Now, you may feel he shouldn’t have taken the case, but that’s his decision. That’s kind of the problem in democracies — people can do things we hate. But that’s also the power of democracies.

]]> By: Anita http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1081 Anita Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:32:41 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1081 Shripriya, Yes, he does. But he does have the dubious distinction of defending those who do not deserve a lawyer with his capabilities in the first place. Should a man of his position not be on the RIGHT side always? What example is he setting for aspiring lawyers? I agree that to judge Manu without a proper trial would be incorrect. Yet, I cannot find any justification for the direction RJ is taking this case in. In the beginning we all join the profession with lofty ideals...then it begins to degenerate to a level where our only goal is to beat the other guy irrespective of whether we are on Law's side. Why call ourselves LAWyers then? What is professional misconduct? I believe it is the abuse of power, even if the power is that of argument and glib misrepresentation of the truth. What is his profession? That of a lawyer. What is his duty as a lawyer? Not to win a case for his client but to ensure that justice is done. Today a laywer's only goal is to win a case. Is that not professional misconduct of the highest order? Shripriya,

Yes, he does. But he does have the dubious distinction of defending those who do not deserve a lawyer with his capabilities in the first place. Should a man of his position not be on the RIGHT side always? What example is he setting for aspiring lawyers?

I agree that to judge Manu without a proper trial would be incorrect. Yet, I cannot find any justification for the direction RJ is taking this case in.

In the beginning we all join the profession with lofty ideals…then it begins to degenerate to a level where our only goal is to beat the other guy irrespective of whether we are on Law’s side. Why call ourselves LAWyers then?

What is professional misconduct? I believe it is the abuse of power, even if the power is that of argument and glib misrepresentation of the truth. What is his profession? That of a lawyer. What is his duty as a lawyer? Not to win a case for his client but to ensure that justice is done.

Today a laywer’s only goal is to win a case. Is that not professional misconduct of the highest order?

]]> By: Shripriya http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1080 Shripriya Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:46:23 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1080 Anita, for chronology, I posted this before Jethmalani made his "tactics" clear. It was when he had just agreed to take on the case. I agree with you that I find his tactics distasteful. Just as I find the tactics of those who defend rapists and murderers distasteful because the tactics often involve casting the victim in a poor light. Which is terrible. I won't defend his tactics. Just his right to represent whomever he chooses. Anita, for chronology, I posted this before Jethmalani made his “tactics” clear. It was when he had just agreed to take on the case.

I agree with you that I find his tactics distasteful. Just as I find the tactics of those who defend rapists and murderers distasteful because the tactics often involve casting the victim in a poor light. Which is terrible.

I won’t defend his tactics. Just his right to represent whomever he chooses.

]]> By: Anita Iyer http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/comment-page-1/#comment-1079 Anita Iyer Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:56:55 +0000 http://shripriya.com/blog/2006/11/04/everyone-has-the-right-to-representation/#comment-1079 I agree. Manu deserves to be defended, but at what cost? That of the modesty of a dead woman? Someone who cannot defend herself? Jethmalani is also obliquely accusing Jessica of being something that she might not have been...of being in a situation which might not have been. Is he not? Is that not contempt? She was killed because she 'challenged manu's manhood'? Is that how he views women? Would he advise his socialite daughter not to 'challenge a man's manhood' in order to escape murder? Is that what he is saying? What was his point really? Why is this even permissable as a defensive argument in court? It should be scratched from the records and he must be made to apologise to jessica's family in public. I agree. Manu deserves to be defended, but at what cost? That of the modesty of a dead woman? Someone who cannot defend herself? Jethmalani is also obliquely accusing Jessica of being something that she might not have been…of being in a situation which might not have been. Is he not? Is that not contempt?

She was killed because she ‘challenged manu’s manhood’? Is that how he views women? Would he advise his socialite daughter not to ‘challenge a man’s manhood’ in order to escape murder? Is that what he is saying?

What was his point really? Why is this even permissable as a defensive argument in court? It should be scratched from the records and he must be made to apologise to jessica’s family in public.

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